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INTERVIEW WITH PEDRO “TETE” RUSCONI AND SILVIA CERIANI |
By Sarah R. Graff
Tete and Silvia came to Chicago to participate in the Chicago Mini
Tango Festival (www.chicagotangofestival.com) held at the University of
Chicago, April 20-22, 2007. It was Chicago’s good fortune that they
were able to stay until the end of May. Using Chicago as their base,
they traveled to many communities around the United States (including
San Diego, Minneapolis, Ann Arbor, Milwaukee, Houston, Woodstock, and
New York City) to teach workshops, but they always returned to Chicago
to teach two weekly classes. Although they were very busy, Tete and
Silvia kindly made time for this interview. Please note that all of the
questions were asked in English and then translated into Spanish by Ray
Barbosa, who sponsored Tete and Silvia’s visit to the United States. He
was also the organizer of the “Mini-fest”. Answers were also translated
from Spanish to English. Although we tried very hard to accurately
translate this conversation back and forth, certain subtleties and
nuances may have been lost.
TN: How did you learn how to dance tango?
Tete: I learned how to dance with my friends.
Silvia: I learned with my friend (she said grasping Tete’s arm). Tete
was my first instructor and really the only one. After him you don’t
need anyone else.
TN: When did you first begin dancing tango?
Tete: I was 14 years old (for 57 years).
Silvia: I was 35 years old.
TN: When did you begin dancing together?
Silvia: In reality, we began dancing together in 1995. In 1996, I went with him for the first time to Europe.
TN: In those early days when you were 14 years old Tete, what was it
like to go to the milongas? Can you describe what the milongas were
like? For example, did each neighborhood have its own milonga?
Tete: Yes. Every barrio (neighborhood) had its own club that people would go to.
TN: Did each barrio have its own style?
Tete: Dancers danced. Everybody had their style. Barrios did not have a
distinctive style. It was the dancers that were distinguished from
particular areas, how each couple danced.
Silvia: They had a lot of dance contests and people would come in from
different barrios and then people noticed how the couples danced.
Tete: People would notice couples that came from different barrios
during the contests but it wasn’t the style of the barrio, it was the
individual style of the couples that people talked about. A lot of
people participated in these contests. One or two couples from every
barrio entered the contests and many people from the barrio would come
to support their local couple. Large crowds would watch all of the
dancers and support the couples from their own neighborhoods.
TN: How many barrios were there?
Tete: (smiling) A lot.
Silvia: There is a song by Castillo where he talks about the various barrios called “100 Barrios Porteño”.
Tete: There aren’t really 100 barrios but that is the song.
TN: Did neighborhoods have their own local musicians?
Tete: No (smiling and laughing at me). The orchestras formed
differently. People who played music would form into different
orchestras with Troilo or Canaro...
Silvia: All of the different orchestras would go to the different barrios and the orchestras would always change musicians.
Tete: Francisco Canaro had more than 30 musicians in his orchestra. He
was a man who had a lot of money so he had the possibility to have a
lot of musicians. He was also very famous because he made a lot of
movies so he could change musicians frequently.
TN: Did people dance to records or to live music?
Tete: People danced to live music because of the orchestras. Then they
couldn’t pay the orchestras and they came out with vinyl records.
Silvia: But then the orchestras began to produce records.
Tete: Everyone knew that records were going to last for a while.
Silvia: I don’t really know, but from the history and the photographs
it seems they would make the records so they would play them on the
radio. Then they would be able to have a live concert on the radio
where everyone in all the different barrios could hear them at the same
time.
Tete: Classical music, folklore music, and tango music was all played
on the radio. There was a different time for every different type of
music.
TN: Do you think the dance changed at all when people began dancing to recorded music as opposed to live music?
Tete: The milongueros never changed anything. Maybe they changed their
dress but not their dancing. The dance changed because of the
youngsters. They opened all these different doors. There were good
consequences and also not such good consequences.
TN: Did people stay in their own neighborhoods and dance in their local
milongas only? What if someone from one neighborhood attended a milonga
that was not their local milonga? Was it allowed or did it cause
problems?
Tete: Nah, nah. Fights were always because of women, nothing else but
women. One man would take out a woman and then another man would try to
take the same woman out and then each would see who was going to get
her.
Silvia: Hmm and now it’s the reverse!
Tete: Now the women fight for the men.
TN: Would it be different for women? Could they go to milongas outside their own barrios?
Tete: Nah, women could go everywhere. There were famous dance halls that people would go to and everyone would go there.
TN: Would women go to the milongas alone or did they always have to go
with their families? Was it appropriate for two girls to attend a
milonga without supervision?
Tete: At one time, the mothers used to go with them to the barrio clubs
because the mothers used to dance too. The mothers would have an
excuse, saying they would take their little girl, “Don’t worry Daddy,
I’ll take her.”
Silvia: My aunt would go with her brothers. They were all about the
same age but as long as she went with a man then it was all right.
Tete: It was very strict in one area. It was very strict that the women
did not go by themselves. It was an excuse of the parents and a very
strict rule.
Silvia: Yes. The advice given to my aunt was never to dance more than
one tanda (set of music played during the milonga – between 3 and 5
songs) with the same person.
Tete: Exactly.
TN: One tanda in the whole night?
Tete and Silvia: Yes.
Tete: Because after two or three tandas, you were boyfriend and
girlfriend back then. If you became her boyfriend then you went with
the whole family, escorting the woman to the milonga. A lot of the
people were Europeans, Italians, and Spanish.
Silvia: A lot of it was Catholic customs.
Tete: There were always stories of love, fights, everything in the
milongas but inside the milongas things were different. At that time
people respected the women a lot more. Now there is a liberty.
Everything is a lot quicker. Everything doesn’t have to be so quick.
Back then there was a lot more respect between the man and the woman.
TN: Did rock and roll affect the popularity of tango?
Tete: No. It was very important at one time, for many years. Rock and roll was very commercial.
Silvia: For me it did. Something happened in Argentina. They danced
tango from the ‘40s on but then there was a very interesting political
period. For example, Enrique Santos Discépolo, a poet and composer, and
Homero Manzi, also Celedonio Flores, both incredible poets, were very
popular during the period of the Peronists. When Peron’s popularity
declined, anyone who wasn’t a Peronist started attacking Discépolo.
This is one side. Then the other side was the military that basically
overthrew Peron. At that time there were popular tango concerts, tango
on the radio, but then rock in roll comes into the picture. Its not the
only thing that happened but it is another detail that happened. Then
there were generational problems where the older people liked tango but
the younger people liked rock and roll. During the time of Peron
everyone liked tango but after Peron’s downfall some people liked tango
and some people did not. This was something.
TN: Do you agree Tete?
Tete: After 1962 tango started becoming less popular. Rock and roll
brought a revolution to the young people. I didn’t stop dancing tango
and many people didn’t either. People danced both and at some point,
maybe in the late 1960’s people stopped really dancing tango. When the
military was there people had to sneak around to dance.
Silvia: If you listen there is music from the 40’s and late 40’s from
Di Sarli, and if you keep listening it starts changing in the 50’s to
the late 60’s, so there is a change that is evolutionary. In the middle
of the '50’s it was forbidden to use some "lunfardo" words, so poetry
and composers "had to" change. Around ' 56 "tango" sounded liked
"bolero", sweet, slow, talking about solitude and romance; no more play
horses, alcohol or existentialist troubles.
Tete: In the 30’s and 40’s the orchestras were smaller and as the
orchestras grew in the 50’s, the music changed. Musicians changed
orchestras more often too, which also changed the music. The best
orchestras had all the best musicians, the best bandoneón player, the
best everything. Now people dance tango but the prices have gone up. 10
pesos is a lot of money for people to pay in Buenos Aires because the
economy is very bad right now. The people still go dancing, but maybe
not as much as they used to. Maybe now it’s changing because of the
electronic tango music. Before a lot of people from Argentina were
dancing tango in the milongas but now there are people from all over
the world. Everybody has always known tango, but nobody ever gave it
any credence. They opened the doors with all these tango shows that had
different figures and boleos. Who would have known that England wanted
to have tango? England didn’t buy anything. In the U.S., if they sell
it people wanted to buy it. Korea, China, what do they know about
tango? But now they dance tango. Who would have known?
Silvia: We can use the phrase of Milena Plebs (the famous tango dancer)
“Tango is the best excuse to embrace yourself with someone unknown.”
TN: Do you think it is possible for foreigners, non-Argentines, to
truly and honestly dance tango or do you think that there is something
in the Argentine culture, history, and way of life that is inexplicable
from the dance?
Tete: If you dance tango well, then you dance tango well. You don’t
have to be Argentine. And not everyone in Argentina dances tango well.
In Germany, Switzerland, and Holland there are many good dancers.
TN: How about the U.S.?
Tete: (thumbs pointing downward laughing). No, the problem with the
U.S. is that organizers get anybody they can to come and teach. Well,
everybody does it everywhere even in Germany, Holland and France, of
all those places. But because this is a business, its work for these
dancers, they don’t come to teach you tango, they come to teach you
steps. There are only between 5-10 tango teachers that can really teach
you how to dance tango. They know how to dance but they also know how
to teach. If they know how to dance but they don’t know how to teach
that doesn’t work and if they don’t know how to dance and they don’t
know how to teach its even worse. And if you really think about it, the
music is tango; it’s not the steps. Whatever style of dance you dance
the music always comes first. So what happens, if a teacher comes here
and they sell you steps instead of teaching how to dance, what happens?
You don’t dance. You learn steps because that is what you think you
need to learn.
Silvia: Teachers have to practice themselves and learn how to teach
before they teach. Its not like all of the good instructors are in
Buenos Aires, there are some bad ones too. There are probably more
professors there than there are students. I am also a painter and I
worked with great masters to learn. I listened a lot and then I started
drawing. Matisse said, “If you start from where I finished then you are
lost.” Everyone wants everything fast from fast food to a fast step.
Tete: The worst is not that you live fast but that you don’t understand
it. It doesn’t matter what country you are from but some countries are
like vinegar and they don’t feel comfortable being in a close embrace
with another person. You go to Switzerland and everyone lives
fantastically but nobody smiles or laughs. It doesn’t matter how you
dance, its how you feel. It makes you change when you get into the
embrace; it makes your blood circulate in a different manner.
(break here for second issue? Or is this too much?)
TN: You have instructional videos on dancing salon tango through Daniel
Trenner. When you were approached to make the videos, did you agree to
make them right away or did you hesitate? Did making the videos help
promote you as a teacher outside of Buenos Aires?
Tete: Daniel Trenner was after me for 5 years to make the videos but he
didn’t give me anything to make them. He is a friend of mine but at
that time I was just dancing I didn’t want to teach classes. After
awhile I agreed.
TN: Did you think about how it would benefit people all over the world when you agreed?
Tete: When I dance I don’t know anything. He asked me to do the video,
told me he would give me some money and I agreed to make the video.
Silvia: We made the videos in the morning. We did it from 9am-1pm. We never repeated anything.
Tete: Only one take.
Silvia: Daniel told me he needed me to make the video because he was
afraid Tete was going to say, “Forget it” at the last minute. He wanted
me there to make sure Tete would be there too.
TN: One of the reasons why I ask about the videos is because some
people argue that videos are detrimental for many tango students.
Tete: Some videos do help.
Silvia: If you know something they can be helpful but if you don’t know anything then they aren’t helpful.
Tete: People buy the videos to look at what I do with my feet but I don’t dance with my feet, I dance with my body.
Silvia: Daniel was trying to find a way to have all the best teachers
recorded. Daniel did a good job because without his work nobody would
have known about all those great Argentine dancers. It also has some
merit because you learn the different styles of the different teachers.
Tete: Yes, its great work because of that. Right now you can’t even do
a video because people are filming you all the time and putting you all
over the place. Different people take videos of you and before you know
it they make a commercial. So you can’t make videos now.
TN: So does it bother you that a lot of foreigners are filming in the milongas?
Tete: If that was my whole living I wouldn’t like it. No it doesn’t bother me.
Silvia: It does bother me. It’s an invasion of my privacy. There are
places where people say its okay to film but it’s treating us like
animals taking pictures of us all the time.
Tete: But if you say no, people will find ways to do it anyway.
TN: I read somewhere that you do not like electronic tango, is this true?
Tete: You have to respect the music that people like. I respect all the
people that dance to all other types of music. Electronic music is not
tango. The more they put bandoneón into electronic music does not make
it tango. You don’t have to call it tango. Piazzolla came here and
played music and said it was music of Argentina but he didn’t say it
was tango -and he plays tango. The music of Argentina is folkloric and
tango. If people dance folkloric the way they dance tango, I don’t like
that either. It’s folkloric so it should be danced that way. Folklore
is folklore and tango is tango. You can dance swing or rock and roll in
the U.S. and you dance it the way it’s done here. Tango is not rock and
roll and it’s not swing. It’s something else. How is the world? It is
terrible, right? Because they don’t respect anything. The world would
be tranquil if you put everything where it’s supposed to be.
TN: What else do you like to do besides dance tango? What was your profession?
Tete: I worked for the city as a public employee from 7pm -1am. After
work I would go and dance and get to bed by 8am! Sometimes I would miss
work…(he said with a little wink in his eye).
Silvia: Tete was a rock and roll champion for 5 years. There was a
marathon dance contest with people from all over and all kinds of
dances. He beat the record of 102 hours of dancing with his 137
hour-long marathon.
Tete: The choreographer Pina Bausch from Germany invited me to Europe
in 1997. I danced a piece of hers called “Nur Du” (only you) for three
years in a row. She also invited me for the 25th anniversary of
Tanztheater Wuppertal. There I danced “Nur Du” with her in the close
embrace. It was a 30-day spectacular and some of the best dancers in
the world, including Nureyev, were there.
Silvia: I am an actress and a painter. I began dancing when I started
working with Tete. With everything I am doing right now I have not had
enough space to paint. I also write theater pieces. My last performance
was in 2004 at La Catedral with guitar players and a singer. I also
danced tango there.
TN: Who are your favorite composers? Orchestras? Singers?
Tete: Composers - Pugliese, Troilo, and Vargas. Singers – Castillo but there are so many great singers.
Silvia: Composers – Anibal Troilo and Julio De Caro. Singers - Angel D'agostino, Raúl Berón, Alberto Castillo, Roberto Ruffino.
In Poetry I choose Pascual Contursi, Enrique Santos Discépolo, Homero
Manzi and Celedonio Flores. Carlos Di Sarli, Pedro Laurenz and some
tracks by Osvaldo Pugliese are my favorite orchestras to dance to.
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